Fluctuations d'activité des sites communautaires

[DoOmnimaga]

[EDIT ADMIN] : split topic from here: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=19930&start=20#p216777

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Cemetech and CodeWalrus aren't very productive this year, compared to last year.
But the problem is the same : it's a main admin which became suddenly less active/productive this year.
And as a consequence, the members become less active/productive, and fewer new members are attracted.

On cnCalc, the activity decrease suddenly happened around 2 years ago.

Omnimaga is long dead, because of the stupid behaviour the admin team had with many productive members in 2013-2014, proving its communication and interaction skills to be very low.
Just check the graph :

After trying to improve things for months without any persistent results, almost the whole Omnimaga community did leave to create and move to CodeWalrus.

One issue with CodeWalrus is that most people who founded it had quit calculator programming or were about to do so before the site even opened. This is why the site opened with only two calculator sections (aside from the projects). All we wanted is a place online to hang out and chill together like we used to be able to on Omnimaga, without getting harassed. When we discovered that the death of calculator programming was inevitable and that Cemetech-centered drama would always return every year or so, we simply gave up on trying to revive the calculator scene. I already stopped writing calculator-related news, because nobody cares about them (and that was the case during my final year as Omnimaga newser as well), so the only calc posts are now the monthly award polls. CodeWalrus still receives calc-related posts but it's only a matter of time before that becomes a thing of the past.

[critor]

When we discovered that the death of calculator programming was inevitable [...], we simply gave up on trying to revive the calculator scene. I already stopped writing calculator-related news, because nobody cares about them (and that was the case during my final year as Omnimaga newser as well)

I wouldn't say that nobody cares... I don't feel it this way here or on ticalc.org.
I already replied to some other of your posts that I was ok to help by newsing on Codewalrus.
It's sad to see that they still have been many huge achievements/discoveries this year, and that they've just missed the front page...

The situation in France is special, but where does your death of calculator programming come from ?
Would TI and Casio have developed and released the great new 84+CE and fx-CG50 if the death was so imminent ?

[DoOmnimaga]

The situation in France is special, but where does your death of calculator programming come from ?
Would TI and Casio have developed and released the great new 84+CE and fx-CG50 if the death was so imminent ?

See Codewalrus, Cemetech and other site post stats in the past few years. I also heard that this year, many American schools ditched calculators, but I forgot in favor of what. All I know is that in 2012, Omnimaga had more posts alone than the entire TI community combined together got in 2017.

As for people not caring about my news, well, I often posted 2-3 news in a row where since 2014 not a single one of them got a reply. Game-related news usually got none at all.

[critor]

See Codewalrus, Cemetech and other site post stats in the past few years. I also heard that this year, many American schools ditched calculators, but I forgot in favor of what. All I know is that in 2012, Omnimaga had more posts alone than the entire TI community combined together got in 2017.

As for people not caring about my news, well, I often posted 2-3 news in a row where since 2014 not a single one of them got a reply. Game-related news usually got none at all.

Maybe you should just stop caring about posts an replies.
They're not reliable indicators.

We're on forums, when young people may prefer to communicate/react on social networks.
I've never had many replies to my TI-Planet news, and I can't see any difference this year.
It doesn't bother me anyway, I'm mainly posting to inform, not to get replies although I'll gladly read them and answer.
Even if nobody replies, it doesn't mean that nobody did read.

I can assure you that TI-Planet's visits are still increasing compared to last year according to Google Analytics, and although I'm posting fewer news than last year (mainly due to to the fact that there is much less activity to cover from Cemetech/Codewalrus).
I even have problems this year finding featurable projects for ticalc.org, when last year the problem was about selecting them, and thus many features did address 2 projects at the same time.



Fewer news/projects releases, just brings fewer visits, fewer posts and fewer projects.
Regarding Cemetech, the 84+CE is now more than 2 years old, an we still have no compatible version of jsTified, DoorsCS or TI-Boy CE.
So there is no sudden Cemetech problem this year - it's just the logical consequences of 2 years of apathy from the end users point of view.

Omnimaga is long dead, but if nobody reacts Codewalrus seems to be taking the same way - although it can probably go on like this for some years.
It makes me sad to see that the english international TI community seems to be dying of the apathy of old members/developers/admins before the french one, when there is no real reason.

I don't know about US, but there are many opportunities in Europe :
- calculators are still the only approved technology for exams in France
- although several european countries are using tablets in class, the students still take their exams with the calculator (meaning that they're using the Nspire/Prime calculator app in class) - Belgium and Swiss
- some european countries (France, Netherlands) are requiring new models with exam mode+LED, and it just brings more innovation from the manufacturers
- in Germany, it's the school teachers who choose the calculator model, and they mainly opt for the TI-Nspire

So there are no valid reasons behind the english community activity decrease.
There are just new opportunities to take : going on developing games/tools, but also addressing exams, app-versions of the calculators, and germanic languages (and seeing that Codewalrus still managed to get several german members in our new context, it's silly ).

[DoOmnimaga]

Well, if all three forums reach Omnimaga-like activity in a few years despite all the efforts we spent, then don't you think it's a bit discouraging and demotivating? Many of my calc game release news usually got about 20-50 page views/reads in their first weeks, which isn't a lot compared to other topics. One issue that holds CW back, though, is the lack of a staff or very dedicated user who both has the time, interest and skills to program in PHP to enhance the website capabilities, such as to allow any post to be front-paged (like on Cemetech) rather than just the first topic post. It's still far better than what we had on Omnimaga (where we could only front-page posts from 1 single sub-forum), but it's still limiting because when a new project update comes out, we basically have to recreate a new topic from scratch just to news about it rather that click two buttons.

The reason why I stopped caring as much though is not just the apathy from most English TI community members, but also the fact that programming is just way too complicated and it takes far too long to get anything done. As a result, I moved on to RPG Maker 2003, which lets me create games without a single line of code.


Regarding Cemetech, to be honest, I think Kerm likes to be first in everything, and it's impossible to be first ahead of Cesium. So as a result, I am fairly sure that a CE version of jsTIfied became very low in his priorities. He also got much busier with real life.

Regarding CodeWalrus, its death as a calc site is inevitable given the fact it arrived several years too late and the fact that we don't have enough advanced ASM/C programmers compared to Cemetech and TI-Planet.

Regarding Omnimaga, the writing has been on the wall ever since Juju got kicked out from staff on March 29th 2012. That's probably the day where CodeWalrus should have started, but back then I am sure that everyone would have said "Oh look, DJ is throwing another tantrum and is overreacting again" and nobody would have taken the site seriously. It took a massive Nazi-inspired member purge on Omnimaga by the new administration in order for other established community members to realize that maybe an "overreaction" was now necessary.

Oh, and don't tell me I didn't react on CodeWalrus to make things move lively. I spent 3 years doing it, often sacrifying many other real life activities just to ensure that CW remains active. But the rest of the staff feels that posting activity is unimportant and at the same time they have quit calcs long ago, so there wasn't much more that I could do and since I am not a slave, it is me who have chosen the level of contributions I will continue to make to CodeWalrus in the future.


PS:
-Graphing calculators are banned in Germany hi schools since late 2015 or so. The replacement is scientific and basic calcs.
-Many USA hi schools just did the same or are in the process of doing so. The replacement will be tablets and some special application, if I remember correctly.
-In the Netherlands they're stuck with the crappy TI-84 Plus-T, which lacks ASM/Axe/xLIB/DCS support. Not a good incentive to get into advanced programming
-In Canada, calculators are way too friggin expensive right now

[Adriweb]

The "end", globally speaking, of big&very-active calc communities is pretty much obvious, as most students/people don't really have any valid reason to care about those devices anymore. They have smartphones, tablets, or even computers, etc. in class, now (or soon anyway). And in a way, it's probably better for their own sake.
There still is some greater level of activity here on TI-Planet because France has a quite special position in all this, but we'll see how that evolves just with the 2018 stuff... it may drop quite a bit.

And I don't think anybody is to blame for all this (okay, except for the whole omnimaga deal, we know the story already and it's been re-told a bit here), it's just the natural evolution of technology and how people use it.

So, in the end, I think there will still be the enthusiasts like a few of us, here, but don't expect anything close to levels we've grown accustomed to over the years.
I wouldn't really mind it anyway - quality over quantity isn't necessarily a bad thing. I, for one, am spending much less time than years ago (same goes for other people here - and it's also quite normal, lots of us started as students, and we have less and less time to spend on all this, over time), and refocused on a few projects I care about, and frankly I don't really care much if it's a huge popular thing or not - at least I know the users of it like it - quality over quantity, as I've said.


(Also, yes, this topic should be split)

[critor]

I was sharing a general impression.
This was in no way a personal attack against you.

Codewalrus won't reach the Ominaga level of acitivity if people do react, and even without that, I think it'll take several years before it falls so low in activity.

You've perfectly got the right to stop programming and even posting on Coldewalrus, especially after what you've done voluntarily for the TI community for years.

I just disagree with the reasons.
It's not too late for Codewlarus, as regarding calculators there are still huge opportunities at least in the european context.

By stopping, the reasons exposed (disinterest, which is wrong IMO) are just going to become true.

[critor]

-Graphing calculators are banned in Germany hi schools since late 2015 or so. The replacement is scientific and basic calcs.

No, you're wrong.
They're banned in only 2 regions in the south of Germany.

-In the Netherlands they're stuck with the crappy TI-84 Plus-T, which lacks ASM/Axe/xLIB/DCS support. Not a good incentive to get into advanced programming

Not exactly.
They've got the 84+CE-T too, and also the fx-CG50, both *very* interesting.

And apps could be added on the 84+T with some exploit.

So the huge opportunities I've exposed above are real.

[DoOmnimaga]

When I saw CW activity decrease last June, I estimated that CW activity will drop by about 25-30% every year. I think in about 5 years the TI community will be like AtariAge or Lemon 64, with mostly older people who are fans of vintage computing platforms being the participants. It won't be a community ran by students anymore.

-Graphing calculators are banned in Germany hi schools since late 2015 or so. The replacement is scientific and basic calcs.

No, you're wrong.
They're banned in only 2 regions in the south of Germany.

-In the Netherlands they're stuck with the crappy TI-84 Plus-T, which lacks ASM/Axe/xLIB/DCS support. Not a good incentive to get into advanced programming

Not exactly.
They've got the 84+CE-T too, and also the fx-CG50, both *very* interesting.

And apps could be added on the 84+T with some exploit.

So the huge opportunities I've exposed above are real.

Weird, DarkestEx told me the graphing calcs were banned nationwide. I guess he was wrong then. But why a ban in Southern regions in particular?

And I didn't know the CE-T was available in the Netherlands. Also I don't find the CG50 very interesting. Its BASIC language is still atrociously slow from what I've heard and that's the language most novice programmers start with. Not a good way to get someone into programming if he's forced to go straight to C/ASM without any previous programming experience. C is way too hard.

EDIT: If apps get added to the CE, the discussion would have to happen on CodeWalrus or TI-Planet, or any other non-Cemetech-aligned community, otherwise get ready for a shitstorm.

[critor]

The "end", globally speaking, of big&very-active calc communities is pretty much obvious, as most students/people don't really have any valid reason to care about those devices anymore. They have smartphones, tablets, or even computers, etc. in class, now (or soon anyway). And in a way, it's probably better for their own sake.
There still is some greater level of activity here on TI-Planet because France has a quite special position in all this, but we'll see how that evolves just with the 2018 stuff... it may drop quite a bit.

I totally disagree with you, as already explained above.

It may be different in the US, but calculators do still have future in a big part of Europe and not only in France.

So let me repeat myself :
- for now, calculators are still the only technology approved for exams
- even in countries who already moved to tablets, students still use calculators for exams (Swiss, Belgium), and thus the manufacturer calculator app in class (in order to be trained for the exams)
- Germany is big fan of the TI-Nspire - it's the reference calculator, the CE just being a tiny minority
- France and Netherlands made manufacturers invest into developping new models - it's probably not to drop them in some years

I don't understand where your thing about 2018 come from.
We have an increasing activity not only for the exam months/weeks, but for all the 'normal' months of the year.
And that's what I've been targeting : normal class users and enthusiasts.
I don't care about exam months/weeks activity anymore.
Sur les 3 niveaux du lycée, nous avons maintenant 2 générations concernées par le mode examen, et l'activité ne baisse pas - nous avons toujours de nouveaux membres en Seconde/Première.
There is no reason it's going to change next year now.

So there aren't any valid reason for the english community activity decrease.
The community just needs to adapt itself like we already did several times on TI-Planet : talking not only about games/tools, but also maths, exams... and german.